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#1 2013-06-06 11:43:08

A balanced look at the erosion of our privacy and civil rights.  I've said it before, our rights are nothing more than a nuisance and a hindrance to our supposed servants who would be our masters.

Last edited by XregnaR (2016-11-13 16:55:57)

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#3 2013-06-06 12:20:04

Dmtdust wrote:

The crap is just getting higher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju … :Position1

Back when Homeland Security first proposed this program I supported the limited use for tracking phone calls from outside the U.S. from known terrorists to Americans.  Now, it seems as though the program has morphed into the gathering of all information so it can be sorted and sifted for any possible terrorist links or who knows what.  Coincidentally, Orwell's 1984 was published 64 years ago today.  "It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen."

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#4 2013-06-06 14:49:36

http://high-street.org/uploads/thumbs/415_cdn-media_nationaljournal_com.jpg

The beady eyes, flared nose and pursed lips. Oh shit! W. pulled the ol' "Shoe Polish Switch-A-Roo" on us. No wonder he always had wood for Condoleezza Rice.

Last edited by Banjo (2013-06-06 14:50:55)

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#5 2013-06-06 14:59:56

Is anyone even remotely surprised by this?

I have assumed, since well before 9/11, that any non face-to-face communication was potentially being monitored. 

And judging by the behavior of western civilization (a la Facebook, Twitter, Instagram), privacy hasn't been a concern for some time.

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#6 2013-06-06 18:52:36

phreddy wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

The crap is just getting higher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju … :Position1

Back when Homeland Security first proposed this program I supported the limited use for tracking phone calls from outside the U.S. from known terrorists to Americans.  Now, it seems as though the program has morphed into the gathering of all information so it can be sorted and sifted for any possible terrorist links or who knows what.  Coincidentally, Orwell's 1984 was published 64 years ago today.  "It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen."

So, you were before it before you were against it? Does your memory also extend as far as the code name of the operation Dick Cheney put it place to guarantee a 100% take of phone and email traffic in the States?

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#7 2013-06-07 11:00:57

Tall Paul wrote:

So, you were before it before you were against it? Does your memory also extend as far as the code name of the operation Dick Cheney put it place to guarantee a 100% take of phone and email traffic in the States?

Can you liberals finally just get past Bush & Cheney and start thinking about how we protect ourselves from government overreach?  Does saying Bush did it too make it OK with you?  If not, shut up about it and stand up for your rights. 

Yes, Bush had a data collection system.  It was set up only to monitor traffic between terrorists inside and outside the U.S.  But like every instance where we allow the camel's nose under the tent, the beast eventually lords over our household.  Today we discover it wasn't just Verizon cell phones.  They are monitoring EVERYTHING!  They say they are only looking for foreign targets.  And if you believe that..........

The National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails, documents, and connection logs that enable analysts to track foreign targets, according to a top-secret document obtained by The Washington Post.

And then there's Prism.

Last edited by phreddy (2013-06-07 11:03:36)

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#8 2013-06-07 11:42:47

Back when Homeland Security

I'm actually intensely offended and alarmed that we even have a "Department of Homeland Security" everything about that reeks of bad ideas and government intrusion.


And people want to get rid of EPA, Education and OSHA to shrink government yet keep this thing??

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#9 2013-06-07 12:14:04

Emmeran wrote:

Back when Homeland Security

I'm actually intensely offended and alarmed that we even have a "Department of Homeland Security" everything about that reeks of bad ideas and government intrusion.


And people want to get rid of EPA, Education and OSHA to shrink government yet keep this thing??

More people are led by fear than not.  Weird, but there ya go.

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#10 2013-06-07 14:19:55

Emmeran wrote:

Back when Homeland Security

I'm actually intensely offended and alarmed that we even have a "Department of Homeland Security" everything about that reeks of bad ideas and government intrusion.


And people want to get rid of EPA, Education and OSHA to shrink government yet keep this thing??

Yeah, gotta agree.  That's what we get for the FBI, CIA, DOD, and NSA refusing to share data and cooperate with each other.  DHS was "supposed" to be a clearing-house whereby all Federal agencies exchanged data under a single umbrella.  What we ended up with is the largest Black Ops Agency in the world.  Apparently, with little regard for The Constitution.

And, it's the third-largest Cabinet Department behind Defense and Veteran's Affairs, employing more than 200,000 people.  Most of whom's main qualification is that they can pass a Civil Service exam.

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#11 2013-06-07 15:22:51

phreddy wrote:

Can you liberals finally just get past Bush & Cheney and start thinking about how we protect ourselves from government overreach?  Does saying Bush did it too make it OK with you?  If not, shut up about it and stand up for your rights. 

Yes, Bush had a data collection system.  It was set up only to monitor traffic between terrorists inside and outside the U.S. ...

I was with you Phred on us all gathering round the campfire to roast marshmallows until you went and spoiled any fraternal urging with such tripe as that naked Bush apology. What have you damaged yourself with so many years filling your noggin' with wingnut rantings you just can not let it go even when you want to?

Feel free to delude yourself, but the various internal spying programs we are seeing exposed today were developed under the Bush administration, and continued under Obama. They were from the beginning intenet on gathering up Americans internal communications of all types. Yesterday Feinstein suggested that this same Fisa order has been continuously renewed since Bush put it in place.

“As far as I know, this is the exact three-month renewal of what has been in place for the past seven years,” Feinstein said. “This renewal is carried out by the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court] under the business records section of the Patriot Act. Therefore it is lawful. It has been briefed to Congress.”

Now for the dodge

“Every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this,” said Chambliss in a press conference. “To my knowledge there has not been any citizen who has registered a complaint. It has proved meritorious because we have collected significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years.”

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#12 2013-06-07 15:31:32

Congress is outraged over this. Of course it is the realization that their own communications have been spied upon. Lets take bets if that outrage results in changes to protect them or for the likes of you and me.

Senators Grill Attorney General Holder On Whether Verizon Surveillance Targeted Them, Too

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#13 2013-06-07 16:05:36

The next link should love you long time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/busin … ss&emc=rss

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#14 2013-06-07 16:30:52

Glenn Greenwald wrote:

The N.S.A. is kind of the crown jewel in government secrecy.

An apt description, crown jewel.  Something shiny and sparkly to distract you from other things. If the NSA is doing something that worries people, then DSA is probably doing something that will make them shit themselves in terror.....

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#15 2013-06-07 17:00:22

XregnaR wrote:

If the NSA is doing something that worries people, then DSA is probably doing something that will make them shit themselves in terror.....

Details, please.

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#16 2013-06-07 17:07:01

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#17 2013-06-07 18:15:09

choad wrote:

XregnaR wrote:

If the NSA is doing something that worries people, then DSA is probably doing something that will make them shit themselves in terror.....

Details, please.

If I told you, then I'd have to kill myself.  then you.  Then a puppy.  Then myself again.

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#18 2013-06-07 18:50:05

phreddy wrote:

Can you liberals finally just get past Bush & Cheney and start thinking about how we protect ourselves from government overreach?  Does saying Bush did it too make it OK with you?  If not, shut up about it and stand up for your rights.

Sorry Phreddy, no can do. The best way to stand up for my rights is to demand that the miscreants who started this illegal and immoral criminal enterprise are identified, tried and punished in such a way that no politic hack would ever try that again. Would you have a different standard for them than for bank robbers? Granted, people still rob banks no matter how many are locked away but that's no reason to stop investigating such crimes. And what do you think would have happened had Obama tried to stop such data collection? Fox news had banner headlines calling him a terrorist just for bumping fists with his wife, for God's sake. Their barely-veiled calls for armed revolt would have come right out into the open mighty fast. The problem is on your side of the aisle, not on mine, no matter how much denial you take refuge in. You can say what you like about Jimmy Carter, but he's not afraid to travel to Europe for fear of arrest. 

phreddy wrote:

Yes, Bush had a data collection system.  It was set up only to monitor traffic between terrorists inside and outside the U.S.  But like every instance where we allow the camel's nose under the tent, the beast eventually lords over our household.  Today we discover it wasn't just Verizon cell phones.  They are monitoring EVERYTHING!  They say they are only looking for foreign targets.  And if you believe that..........

Correction: YOU just found out about it, the rest of us have known for years. We just didn't have the evidence to prove it.

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#19 2013-06-08 07:05:00

The upside, at least no one with two brain cells to rub together will ever trust these evil venal cunts again.

NYTimes wrote:

The companies that negotiated with the government include Google, which owns YouTube; Microsoft, which owns Hotmail and Skype; Yahoo; Facebook; AOL; Apple; and Paltalk, according to one of the people briefed on the discussions...

In at least two cases, at Google and Facebook, one of the plans discussed was to build separate, secure portals, like a digital version of the secure physical rooms that have long existed for classified information, in some instances on company servers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/techn … ss&emc=rss

TheVerge wrote:

Google's Larry Page denies PRISM involvement, says secrecy 'undermines the freedoms we all cherish'

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/7/440732 … nvolvement

Gawker wrote:

Zuckerberg Releases Statement Calling PRISM Charges "Outrageous"

http://gawker.com/zuckerberg-releases-s … -512038573

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#20 2013-06-08 07:17:09

http://high-street.org/img/1973-07-30_Newsweek_Nixon_Tapes.jpg

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#22 2013-06-09 18:45:21

Welcome to life in the New Soviet Empire, where your thoughts are the business of The State!  Our long planned High Street/Cruel Reunion will be held in a prison camp!

Last edited by fnord (2013-06-09 19:11:11)

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#23 2013-06-09 18:51:40

Woah, that is the most remarkable stand for someone to take. A clear concise argument for reigning in policies that stand no democratic review and are only held back from turning against our own people at the whim of whomever are our future authorities.

Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What they're doing" poses "an existential threat to democracy", he said.
...

For him, it is a matter of principle. "The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

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#25 2013-06-10 01:10:13

A commenter says: I don't even know how to express my feelings at this. An American citizen, who has exposed illegal government activity that violates both the letter and spirit of the Constitution, has to hide out in Hong Kong and hope for foreign asylum.

This is not the country I grew up in.

I wonder what Em's take on this will be? Given that Snowden claims to have carefully sorted through what he would release to avoid harming people but outing the most essential methods of our war efforts. Does that make him different than Manning? Does such document dumps become justified by applying such consideration. What about this would make Snowden a hero vs Manning a traitor?

Snowden: "I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest," he said. "There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is."

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